| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is an opportunity for real player interaction completely wasted. Why can't my alts with skills be a "team", and other players bid to use their industry or research "slots" (skills)? That would be interesting. But no, instead we've got some abstract incomprehensible isk sink to deal with - yet another - to make working out your actual costs even more tedious and difficult.
When it comes to industry, CCP have replaced one set of complexities with another.
I see no net gain. This is stupid. I'm out. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
T3abag wrote:I loved the industry changes.
Until this change. The last thing I wanted was an overly complicated whole new game mechanic on top of an existing crappy game mechanic (yes, invention in the new UI still is awful).
This is literally the worst game design feature I've ever seen. Industry is already complex enough as it is, and you didn't give us job batches to compensate for the new UI that will actually take longer to do repetitive tasks (like inventing).
Silly isn't it. I was thinking WTF as I read it. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kip Troger wrote:It is an interesting concept! I really like the idea of independant entities coming together because of location to improve their area of operations. I think that this really brings to life interaction in high sec space, where a lot of systems are shared with many small independant entities.
Which makes the system more popular, which makes the slot costs more expensive, which makes the system less popular, which basically means I'm going to have to be moving my ***** around New Eden once a month with no real clue what my costs will be for the next batch of whatever I plan to build.
It's such BS and goes against how a good business should be run. If I don't know what my costs are, I'm not going to build, period. Somebody else can do it.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
597
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't see the point of teams. A system with teams will attract other builders. This will increase the cost of build slots (as per a previous dev blog). Any benefit from having the team will be cancelled out by increased slot costs. So what will the point of it be? The only way to profit from it will be to constantly move to quiet systems and bid for teams. Who's going to factor in the tedium factor as an opportunity cost? I certainly will. No, it won't be worth the trouble.
I think CCP decided to release these blogs in order of increasing silliness. I can't wait for the next one. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
597
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote: How are the ME/TE bonuses planned to stack at this point? 10% ME + 7.5% ME (team) + 2% ME (PoS) = 19.5% material savings from the new base?
Whatever it is it will be precisely cancelled by the slot cost increase from the popularity of your system having a team. Not that you can predict what that'll be of course. No. It'll be completely unpredictable, which is precisely the opposite of what anyone running a business wants. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
597
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote: Also the popularity of my system having a team? There's a lot of those. 4000 teams. I think my system will not be the only one with one, or more.
4000 teams. What's the point if there are so many? It doesn't make any sense at all. And for a 7.5% bonus? Whether that's worth it or not depends on how much the team costs doesn't it. You have no idea what the bids will be. It seems to me that people will bid up to but no further than whatever their break-even on the team is.
Totally crazy. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: No, I want uncertainies in the system, so that I can make more money by being smarter than everybody else.
You're like this guy who goes onto sommerblink and makes a crap load of isk by being "smarter than everybody else", then loses it all again because he didn't realise it was just a roulette wheel and he got lucky.
The market already provides uncertainties. The buy price of materials and the sale price of goods fluctuates. The kind of certainties I want as a builder involves me fixing the price at the point at which I buy the materials, so I know when to sell and how much profit I've made when I do so. I can't fix the price if my production costs are going to fluctuate unpredictably between my buying the materials and my completing the job.
Unlike British Leyland in the good old 1970's, which didn't have a clue how much each Mini cost it to make, I want to know precisely how much each item I build has cost me to make (Leyland went bust, FYI). If I don't have that number available I'm not going to make it. If you think there's a "trick" here where you can make a killing in ISK by not knowing that number, you're an idiota. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: that's why we're going to make so much money: because we're not risk-averse pansies and can charge high margins as you flee the market
It's like physics: If you don't know what your measurement error is, you haven't made a measurement. If you don't know what risk you're taking, you haven't taken a risk, you've just played roulette.
Also calling me a pansy for wanting to run my Eve hobby as I'd run a business, rather than simply pillock about like a day trader on coke. That's mature. Very mature. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 15:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote: 7.5% cost savings on an entire month's production, with as many characters as I can shove into it
You are a fool, a goddamned fool, if you cannot see how amazing that would be.
So with your huge balls winning on the labour auctions all the time your system is going to be very popular for building isn't it. So subtract from your 7.5% bonus the increased cost of production for your slots, the increased cost of your office (if you need one) and the costs of actually winning the auction. Now tell me what your actual costs are.
You can't can you. You know it's > 0 and you pray it's less than the 7.5% bonus you're getting from having the team. Otherwise you have no idea. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:for this game you pay $5 to enter, and get $10 if the random number we pick between 1 and 10 is lower than eight and nothing if it's eight, nine or ten
"we don't know what the number will be, we can't decide if we should play!!!!!" - the average highsec industrialist
Are you running a business or playing in a casino? You don't do industry do you. I think you're just on here to troll. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Riela Tanal wrote:So why are the teams NPCs instead of composed of players? Seems more like focusing more on solo work then a combined effort for industrial operations. I was envisioning more of the team aspect function in industry but I suppose I can wait and see. Cooperative gameplay in industry requires complete rewrite of the corp role system. Hopefully that will happen soon (you didn't read this here). Holy cow. This almost (*almost*) makes up for the complete shafting POS owners seem to be getting in the S&I blogs. MDD
They didn't say they were doing it. It was just a "hope". On past performance you'd be justified in assuming it isn't going to happen.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: Taking your analysis of how it works now - you can't be sure that your expected sale price is still profitable after the production run has ended, so what difference does the additional uncertainty of the manufacturing costs make?
No of course I can't. But I can choose to do the run knowing from the history of the product what the expected fluctuation is. That is to say, if my margin is 25% and looking at the history of the thing I'm building it's rarely fluctuated more than 10%, it's worth building. Otherwise it might not be. Regardless it's a judgement I make. No bacon involved.
Green Gambit wrote: And your British Leyland anecdote is very interesting, but you will know exactly what the build cost is - in advance - it's going to be there on screen when you click the button that says submit job.
By the time I've got to that stage I may have already spent 2 or more weeks copying and inventing, maybe longer. I've committed to building whatever it is I'm going to build. I might even have bought the required materials. Then, right at the last moment when I'm set to build, only then do I get to know my additional costs? No thanks.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: Erm last time I checked, physics meaurements come with a degree of confidence over the measurement.
The only way you can give a confidence interval is if you know how accurate your measurement is. If you don't know how accurate it is, you haven't made a measurement and you certainly can't come up with a confidence interval. Same with this new industry system.
It's BS from start to finish. As I said before, I'm out. Somebody else can do all the work for meagre gains (compared to doing almost anything else in Eve). It was an interesting hobby for a while.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote: -Without going anywhere near my absolute margin/liquid limit I can afford to throw a few billion isk at a single team.
I'm not sure what your building that you'll be able to throw a few billion isk at a team per month and still make a profit with that pathetic 7.5% bonus. I mean you must literally be shipping a few hundred billion of stock a month. I don't know what you're building. I assume it's a huge pile of BS. BS sells well in Jita. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: What I don't understand is that you've just said you can do this with the market sell price - so why can't you do this with the other variables?
If CCP want to pile a lot of further cocking about into research and industry then that's up to them but I personally can't be arsed with it. And the 3 characters I've got dedicated to it at the moment won't be arsed to sub their $15 for it either (note: I don't buy Plex).
Making teams with PI? Teams dying at the end of the month (cue idiotic explanation)? Teams not being real players with free industry slots but these little drones the DB spawned? What is it apart from another little griefing tool CCP are handing to RvB and Goons, a further ISK sink and cost to doing business and some extra buttons the industry player has to click to get his stuff done.
Terrible. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
War Kitten wrote: Can I have your blueprints?
If you win the auction, sure. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Aryth wrote:If you didn't consider a functionally anonymous system within EVE that promoted no player interaction a problem then sure. This probably looks worse. I am just glad we have you here to defend these new systems that promote the "player interaction" of bidding against a nameless faceless opponent on the other side of the universe. Or are you just applying more Goon lips to the devs' asses? Hard to tell.
Yes, because we never interacted with other players when we bought the components they'd made or the minerals they'd mined or the blueprints they'd copied. No interaction at all. Now HUGE INTERACTION! We compete in an auction! Wow! (what's my crews' hand sign again?). |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: And like when I play chess, I like to be able to think, analyse, and consider what my best move is to win at the game.
I mean, Eve is a grown-up, thinking-man's game right? If I wanted to play (and lose) at something where it's all about speed-of-reaction, then I'd be playing CoD with all the teenagers.
Not that you will of course. Because there's not all that much thought involved even with the changes. Just a more complicated spreadsheet. If you have to think about it, you haven't prepared properly. |
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